Both Conservative & Liberal Extremists Have Issues with Science

July 6, 2008

Julia \

Julia Butterfly Hill

How soon we forget” is a term that I must sadly apply to myself. I’ve been living in the bible belt for five years now, so the political dangers of the “religious right” are front and center in my thoughts most of the time. I have lost a couple of friends here because I’ve found that I am intolerant of people that are intolerant of muslims, atheists, gays, democrats, etc…) You get my point.

I was, however, reminded recently that scientific ignorance is abundant on the “extreme left” as well.

I wanted to slap myself in the head as it was brought to my attention recently.

In the town where I lived in Northern California (I am not making any of this up), there were three industries … Timber … Dairy … and Pot. We had people living in trees - Julia “Butterfly” Hill - among many others. Pot farms (Grows) throughout the Redwoods, clear cuttung of “old growth”, and palm readers on just about every corner. A lot of the people just plain stunk because they never showered. Kids didn’t graduate high school, not because of gang indoctrination and/or fear of violence, but because they were often too stoned to care.

Activists protest the timber industry because they scar the earth and yet they themselves have ill-maintained diesel generators scattered throughout the forest (to maintain their illegal pot grows) that leak pollutants in to the ground.

This statement from Mr.Kevin Folta is what got me thinking about this subject:

“One of the ironies here is that biotech is so staunchly opposed by the political left, evolution by the political right. I have people in my classes that rally against GMO crops but then say how stupid people are to believe creation.

Both positions come from scientific illiteracy and just fall depending on what is politically expedient.”

and then more clarification on the subject from Mr. Michael Suttkus:

“Yup, every semester when I teach about recombinant DNA technology there’s at least and handful of students that will irrationally discard facts and reason in favor of belief. Especially when thisdiscussion goes to GE (genetically engineered) food, science goes out the window.

“Tamper with our food? HOW DARE YOU PLAY GOD?”

I’ve run into this a lot, too. Both sides of the US political spectrum have their pet anti-science idiocies. It isn’t really about one side being smarter or better for science than the other, but about which particular form of anti-science they favor.

Conservatives tend to favor religious nonsense, creationism (including ID), healing prayer, historical revisionism (The US was founded on Christianity, is great, has always been great, how dare you suggest we did bad things!), etc.

The liberals favor healing crystals and other new-age nonsense, mother nature is good fallacies (and anti-tech as a result), complaints that science is just another way of knowing, no better than the others” and encouraging students to create theories that are valid for their paradigm”

(I really love that one, apparently 9.8 m/s^2 is optional, if it doesn’t work for you, change it!).

Both sides love “mysterious ancients” stuff (atlantis, pyramid nonsense, etc ) and UFOs, but have different flavors.

For instance, Conservative UFOs tend to be full of cattle-mutilating, human-raping, evil scientist aliens. Meanwhile, liberal UFOs are full of alien benefactors spouting helpful things like, “Protect the environment” and “Avoid GE foods!” And everybody loves astrology. (Carl Sagan once quipped that one of the surest problems with the UFO encounter stories was how dumb the aliens seemed. Not once did they tell us anything useful that we didn’t already know, but, you know, AFTER we found out CFCs were destroying the ozone layer, THEN the aliens started to tell us about it all the time.)

These aren’t hard and fast rules, of course. Humans never fall into hard categories, but they are trends I see. These folks are typically politically left-of-center and certainly understand the scientific data concerning climatechange and otherissues, I’d be surprised if that was true. They’re politically left of center and HAVE ACCCEPTED the climate change conclusions proffered by sciencists, but they don’t really understand the data.

That’s the real problem here, the central core of the problem in all the anti-science issues in this country. You have two groups of common people, those who accept the scientific story not because they understand the data and evidence, but because it is acceptable to their worldview and authorities tell them so, and another group of people who reject the science because THEIR authorities tell them differently.

The public does not know and does not care about the data, evidendce and facts. The average person on the street who accepts evolution would be hard pressed to name a single transitional fossil (with the possible exception of Archaeopteryx and a vague refence to {insert foreign sounding name} Man) and has no clue about the genetic data. Even if evolution wins the day, it won’t be the victory of the knowledgeable over the ignorant, but the ignorant who agree with us over the other ignorant.

We have GOT to make science something the public actually cares about. We have GOT to make scientists heroes again, something kids dream about growing up to become. We have GOT to make knowledge sexy. Otherwise we’re just doomed to keep fighting these same battles over and over again. “

Well said.

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Entry Filed under: Education, Intelligent Design, Politics, Science. Tags: , , , , , , .

11 Comments

  • 1. Yoo  |  July 7, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    No kidding, a skeptic ends up receiving hostile responses from both politically conservative and liberal woo-meisters. The travails of an intellectually honest person …

  • 2. Pamela Ronald  |  July 9, 2008 at 10:51 pm

    This is exactly what we have encountered in our northern california progressive town. We write about it in our book “Tomorrow’s Table”.

    On a similar subject, did you see the article The Paranoid Style in American Science by Daniel Engber of Slate?

    http://www.slate.com/id/2189178/entry/2189179/

  • 3. Stacy S.  |  July 9, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    Hi Pamela, thanks for visiting … and thanks for the link too! I’m sure I’ll enjoy it!

    P.S.- I hope you are not too close to fire! The whole state seems to be on fire! :-(

  • 4. James Downard  |  July 10, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Having dug into the issue of muddled thinking from the direction of investigating antievolutionists (such as Anne Coulter, see some postings of mine at Talk Reason.org) I have come to the conclusion that it is really easy and utterly natural for most people to fall into ideological approaches to issues rather than assessing the facts from the bottom up. This is so because I suspect most people are what might be called “tortucans” (a riff off Latin for turtle). These are people who gravitate to things they want to be true, rather than being like Richard Feynman (or Dr. Zhivago even) who desire to only believe things that are actually true (and work out clear standards of evidence for such things). The tortucan can accomplish this without a sweat because they also suffer from “Matthew Harrison Brady Synrdome” (after the antievolutionist William Jennings Bryan analog in “Inherit the Wind”): the natural proclivity for not thinking about things they don’t want to think about, and not thinking all that well about the things they do think about.

    If this is a fair assessment it means that non-evidential acceptance or rejection of science (or politics or religion) is not subject to much in the way of remedial education. It does depend on, though, keeping extreme Tortucans from defining the range of discourse (by controlling school boards or becoming President for instance) because of the danger this poses for milder Tortucans being dragged along in the backwash. The more extreme cases of this (Nazi Germany, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, or the current regime in Iran) suggest how quickly societies can unravel when a Tortucan-defined system coms to be in charge.

  • 5. Mike  |  July 11, 2008 at 12:10 am

    Hmmm; I take issue with the way that Global Warming is presented here as being a leftist equivalent to astrology. I would say that the argument that it is anthropogenic is better support by the data that I have seen and been shown. Does that make me a woo-bound librul?

  • 6. Stacy S.  |  July 11, 2008 at 8:43 am

    I don’t think anybody said that. Or did I miss something?

  • 7. firemancarl  |  July 12, 2008 at 10:45 pm

    Mike, I didn’t see anywhere in the post that Stacy made that type of analogy. I think you are misunderstand the section about beneficial/i> aliens.

    For instance, Conservative UFOs tend to be full of cattle-mutilating, human-raping, evil scientist aliens. Meanwhile, liberal UFOs are full of alien benefactors spouting helpful things like, “Protect the environment” and “Avoid GE foods!” And everybody loves astrology.

    (Carl Sagan once quipped that one of the surest problems with the UFO encounter stories was how dumb the aliens seemed. Not once did they tell us anything useful that we didn’t already know, but, you know, AFTER we found out CFCs were destroying the ozone layer, THEN the aliens started to tell us about it all the time.)

    I think it’s just a misunderstanding or misread of the quote provided. Besides, I have met young Stacy and I would hardly think of her equating anyone who “believes” in global climate change as a wooer.

  • 8. Stacy S.  |  July 12, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    “Young” … Ha!!

  • 9. PodBlack Cat | A Tangled &hellip  |  July 15, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    [...] Pamela Ronald printed in The Boston Globe: The new organic and how the future of food may depend on an unlikely marriage: organic farmers and genetic engineering; an ‘Iridology How To’ by Skepticemia – oh, and the fascinating ‘Both Conservative & Liberal Extremists Have Issues with Science‘. [...]

  • 10. tsfiles  |  July 27, 2008 at 9:10 am

    Genetically modified food is indeed dangerous. Just ask a person who hasn’t ate a full meal in months how dangerous such food really is.

  • 11. Stacy S.  |  July 27, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    You misread the post – I think GE foods are fine. That’s what the “ALIENS” were saying.

    The point of the whole thing was that if you don’t understand something and you are extremely LEFT or RIGHT … your interpretation is going to look different.


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